Brzezinski on Iran and Israel

While getting ready this morning, I caught an exchange between Pat Buchanan and Zbigniew Brzezinski (and Carl Bernstein) on Morning Joe. They were discussing the Iranian nuclear threat.

BRZEZINSKI: [if Israel attacked Iran]... we would be drawn into a war with Iran. With all of the consequences which I've already mentioned: more American casualties in Afghanistan, probably renewed violence on a large scale in Iraq, a huge spike in the price of oil - and, therefore, huge burdens on the American people. So, this is something, in my judgment, which to be avoided... [it's] not necessary... One, we do not know if the Iranians are building nuclear weapons. All we know is that they have an ambitious nuclear program... And secondly, we can certainly deter them because we have deterred much bigger countries than Iran...

BUCHANAN: I agree... but the Israeli position is [Iran] cannot be allowed to continue this program and they certainly cannot be allowed to get nuclear weapons. That's an existential threat to the Israeli nation. Now, do you believe? (interrupted by Brzezinski)...

BRZEZINSKI: Look, this "existential threat". What does that mean? The moment the Iranians get their first bomb, they're going to commit national suicide for the pleasure of blowing up Tel-Aviv? I mean that's propaganda; that's not analysis. The fact of the matter is [that] Israel has a nuclear deterrent of its own. If it cannot deter the Iranians, why does it have a nuclear deterrent? In that case, why don't they stage a big propaganda ploy and announce that they'll give up their nuclear weapons if the Iranians categorically and credibly give up their nuclear program if they have a weapons program? The fact of the matter is [that] Israel has a couple hundred nuclear weapons, so what are we talking about here, this "existential threat"? Probably Israel, with its two hundred bombs, is more of an existential threat to Iran than Iran is to Israel.

BUCHANAN: Do you think Netanyahu is bluffing [by threatening Iran]?

BRZEZINSKI: I don't know if he's bluffing... the point I'm making is the American national interest would be very adversely affected. And, thinking about world affairs, my point of departure is the American national interest. And that is also the point of departure for the President, for the Secretary of State, and, hopefully (laughs) for the U.S. Congress...

BUCHANAN: Is that the point of departure for Mr. Netanyahu?

BRZEZINSKI: [No.] So, we have to use whatever leverage we have to make it very clear to him that he shouldn't be damaging American national interest. And I don't think it's in Israel's interest to damage us. Because if we are damaged in the long run, then Israel's future is in jeopardy... without the U.S., Israel would not be as safe as it is today.

BERNSTEIN: What's so interesting about this discussion is how different it is from what we read and see in the press. When you get in to a factual discussion, we see that it is not these ideological, easy simplifications. And, we got to get away from that in our public debate and happily we've done it here. But the print press and television press has got to get away from the simplification.

Great (temporary) display of honesty by the press (Bernstein) and a member of the world power elite (Brzezinski) in discussing the outright propaganda which is spewed from the press and our Congress (captivated by AIPAC) when discussing the subjects of Iran and Israel.